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--- In theoretical_physics@yahoogroups.com, brian lawson
<lawdawg7051@...> wrote:
>
> 6 1/2 hour drive, had time to ponder...;)... a better mind twister is,
Is the concept of eternity inherently flawed since time itself had a
moment of creation after the bang?
> Â and since there was an after, is the concept of a before
inherently flawed?

This is a pertinent observation.

The concept of mathematical infinity is subjective in the metaphysical sense and is related to the idea of 'eternity' in common linguistics; but is rendered 'definable' in the physical (i.e. as a subset of the metaphysical) sense by mathematical structures, such as the 'asymptotic approach' or 'renormalisation'.
Another mathematical approach is to consider Infinity (∞) as superstructured in Cardinalities (Cantor's Transfinite Sets, either denumerable aka countable aka countably infinite; like Cardinality Aleph Null - one-to-one with the integers - OR uncountable like the set of irrational numbers).
A commonly misunderstood Cardinality is the Aleph-All transfinity, which allows all the cardinalities to be counted as if they were themselves countably infinite as summation (yet uncountable in isolation, compare with the Normal Gaussian Stochastic Distribution).

A comparable definition is:
Aleph-Null:  limit{n→∞}T(n)=∞
Aleph-All:    limit{n→X}T(n)=1 for conditions:
|X+Y|=|XY|=i2=-1=exp{iπ},...Euler Identity for T(n)=1=n(n+1) with roots X=0.618033... and Y=-1.618033.... 

The Aleph-All cardinality so encompasses all of Cantor's transfinite infinities in a mathematical 'Oneness' concept. It is well understood by professional mathematicians, that the roots X and Y are the most 'misbehaved' irrational real numbers. They are of course 'Nature's favourites' in terms of maximum 'packing' capacity of (cosmo-genetic) information as the Fibonacci-Numbers of the 'Golden Mean' and 'Phi'.
    
Brian's pertinent observation is a 'distinction' between the concepts of a 'physically observed time' and the principle of ordering in a 'before - now - after'.
Allowing a metaphysical BEFORE (say as forethought 'consciousness') some arbitrary NOW (as an experience creating a MEMORY for the 'consciousness'); will DEFINE a metaphysical AFTER (as a processed memory of afterthought 'consciousness').
This metaphysical 'occurrence' or happening then can TRANSFORM into the metaphysical subset of PHYSICALISED SPACETIMEMATTER, that is the Quantum Big Bang Cosmogenesis.
Therefore, BEFORE there was the event of the PHYSICAL Quantum Big Bang, there was the MEMORY of that Quantum Big Bang in METAPHYSICAL (or spiritual or mathematical) NULLTIME.
 
The Quantum Big Bang, occuring so 19.11 Billion years ago in 'physical time' also occurs 'right now' and will occur tomorrow at 12.56 UT; because so called linear time is quantized in NOW-Time segments, each defining the so called 'period of hyperacceleration' or Guth-Inflation.

This timesegment relates linear physical time to metaphysical circular time as a 'source-frequency' of 3 thousand million billion trillion cycles (Hertz in cosmic units*).

It can then be shown, that the LINEARISATION of this TIMELOOP (by superstring parameters) 'caused' the creation of the spacetime metrics, that is the physical experience of spacial and temporal separations.

John Shadow

FUTURE SHADOWS OF THE PAST
 
"A most wondrous thing the Shadow is, a redeemer in all to succour;
it can go where the light cannot abide, seemingly banished, it is not.
For where the light is, the darkness flees, no longer present to endure;
so to become illuminated is its destined journey and its troubled lot.
 
But without the light, no Shadow can be cast, its such a splendid key;
the dimensions reduce in space from three to two and all in just the one.
Betwixt the light and the darkness it is and part of both for all to see;
the Shadow of the body, does it not merge all in its rule under the sun?
 
Whatsoever can cast a Shadow, must be a most wondrous thing to relay;
as nature's very own offspring, the young ones grow towards their final goal.
Enabled to bring peace to so many things appearing apart and so far away;
the reconciliation for the suffering body with its spirit and its scattered soul."
 
http://tonyb.freeyellow.com/ and http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/quantumrelativity

Indeed Lan!  
The 'physical universe' is cocreative with all of its sentient inhabitants. The 'physical universe' is a subset of its metaphysical precursor.
The metaphysics is constructed 'purely' from archetypical definitions independent on any parameters of space, time or inertia. It so becomes a consequence of logical discourse, that any metaphysical analysis, say via mythology (say as championed by Joseph Campbell and to a somewhat less comprehensive extent by Carl Gustav Jung) or scientific reductionism or gnostic insights (Gnosis=Insight=Scientia)  is 'empowered' by the analyser, experimenter or observer to contribute to any possible reconfiguration of the metaphysical omniverse (embedding any number of phaseshifted multiverses and universes with a seeded protoverse as the physical spacetime universe of observation).

Once the 'logos', say as a collective and holistic 'groupmind' of the cosmic consciousness has 'collected' enough individuated 'logical discourses', models and memories sufficient to reconfigure the cosmos in part or in full; it will certainly do so by reason to extend its database (see original star trek movie) by manifested potentiality, necessity and sufficiency for its own perpetuating 'growth'.   You and Sylvia are 'helping' the 'omnimind' to remember itself, just by reason of your embodiments as a function of the experience of spacetime.  

John Shadow 

   
From: Lan Johnson Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 12:39 AM To: wlmailhtml:{F26FC7A2-3665-4ADB-B99F-7159137583F6}mid://00000031/!x-usc:mailto:TheoryOfEverything@yahoogroups.com
 
Subject: Re: [TheoryOfEverything] Re: [PatternVill] Infinity and Eternity and a Time Before, Now and After
 

Our "observed perception" of "The Grand Spacetime Illusion" influences, changes and creates the universe. The "The Grand Spacetime Illusion" is neither eternal or irrespective of our perception.     Lan    

----- Original Message ----- From: rybo6 Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:47 AM Subject: [TheoryOfEverything] Re: [PatternVill] Infinity and Eternity and a Time Before, Now and After


On May 26, 2009, at 3:26 AM, Tony Bermanseder wrote:
>
> Therefore, BEFORE there was the event of the PHYSICAL Quantum Big
> Bang, there was the MEMORY of that Quantum Big Bang in METAPHYSICAL
> (or spiritual or mathematical) NULLTIME.

Physical = eternally( energy cannot be created nor destroyed )
occupied finite space
{ physical is grand illusion }

Quasi-physical = ultra-micro, ultra-weak( locally ) gravitational
*spacetime* interferes with self as the physical we experience.
{ gravity is buffer-zone between metaphysical and physical }

Metaphysical = macro-micro infinitely, non-occupied space, existent
beyond the finite physical universe
{ subset of metaphysical is the non-spatial abstract concepts of mind }

>
> This timesegment relates linear physical time to metaphysical circular
> time as a 'source-frequency' of 3 thousand million billion trillion
> Hertz.

"Time" is omni-directional i.e. in( micro ) out( macro ) and around
( left and right ) as well as being one directionally forward( future )

"Metaphysical circular time" is non-defined ergo is non-existent
concept of Tonys abstract and complex mind.

>
> It can then be shown, that the LINEARISATION of this TIMELOOP (by
> superstring parameters) 'caused' the creation of the spacetime
> metrics,
> that is the physical experience of spacial and temporal separations.

Gravity, EM-Radiation and perhaps even plasma are eternally existent.

This grand spacetime illusion exists eternally, irrespecitive of our
observed perception of a current excellerating expansion.

Physical universe is the only perpetual motion machine, and sets
itself apart from its limited short term and local biologicals, with
mind accessing windows into the soul of universe / Godes.

Rybo

Re: Infinity and Eternity and a Time Before, Now and After

Hi Gary!

The physical universe of observation and measurement represents an image of its metaphysical itself.
So in a nonphysical sense you are right; but this is like the negative of a positive image in photography.
But no, I do not agree with ANY cyclic multiverse theories, which separate Smolin-bubbles or expyrotic branes or many quantum worlds or chaotic inflations and the like.
The universe you observe is a protoverse as a seedling for a greater encompassment.
This protoverse is lightspeed restricted in 4-dimensional spacetime.
The encompassment, whatever you like to term it (my multiversal phaseshifts of the protoverse embedded in the omniverse) is comprised of 'unfrozen' 4D-spacetimes, which allow the protoverse to phaseshift.
To date NO such phaseshifts have occurred, but I predict that such will occur within the next five years.
This will cause the Minkowski-metric to rip on the quantum minimum configuration level and reglue itself in a Moebian Twist (the protoverse can be modelled on a 3D-volume of a Klein-Bottle topologically).
This topological transformation of the protoversal quantum structure will then 'open' an additional 4th spacial dimension to embed a 5-dimensional deSitter cosmology into the omniverse (of omnispace modelled in 10-11-12 dimensional supervolumar space).
Your standpoint on gravity is one of Le Sagean 'push gravity' and whilst I agree with certain generalised assumptions in your archive paper (coauthored with Stanley); such as an ubiquitous 'particle' background metric; I reject your inertia based cosmology as truly elementary.
The 'omnipresent inertia' is the long sought Higgs Mass-Induction background, linked to the ZPE (and there are your neutrinos as constituent part of the 'Higgs Template' and as manifested in weak parity violation).
But this 'Inertia-Blueprint' EMERGED from a massless Higgs-Precursor (the dark matter carrier) in the origins of the Equivalence-Principle.
Then it was NONINERTIAL Gravitational 'Massenergy', which transformed the Gravitational Potential Energy into the now measured total masscontent of the universe in so 6.5x1052 kg (or about 7x1079 protoprotonmasses).
No antimatter is required, as antimatter's symmetry is encompassed by the supersymmetry of the noninertial electromagnetic energy eigenstate of the 'gauge photon'.
The interaction gauge agent (erroneously termed virtual photon) for the alpha interaction is right-polarised and is superimposed upon the also right-polarised suppressed Higgs precursor.
This 'doubled' supersymmetry breaking then DEMANDED the gauge graviton to emerge as a double-left-polarised supersymmetriser and that allowed the transformation of the gravitational mass (as gravita) into the inertial mass (as inertia) to proceed.
So your emphasis on gravitation as elementary interaction is well justified; however this gravitation emerged from a geometric curvature of an 'inertia empty' cosmology just so 10-32 seconds into the Big Bang singularity.
One can say, that the total masscontent of the universe at a linear time of 3.333..x10-31 seconds was just 2.22x10-20 kg; but in modular volumar duality, this 'inertia' became multiplied by a de Broglie phase hyperacceleration (or inflation) factor of the googol 10147 in terms of the ZPE-metric and by a factor of 3x1072 in terms of the protoneutron (i.e. Higgs precursor) inertia.
John Shadow

Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Infinity and Eternity and a Time Before, Now and After

Tony -- Would you agree that we are living in at least the SECOND universe?  And that from the standpoint of gravity, this universe CANNOT be the first.  Best wishes, Gary C. V.

Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 06:25:41 -0700
From: garyvezzoli02215@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Infinity and Eternity and a Time Before, Now and After
To: pacificap@hotmail.com

Thank you.  Allow me to clarify -- I am not necessarily arguing a cyclic universe, and stated simply that the one we live in at this time must be the second one.  Also, the trajectory of mass through space is curvilinear, not space itself.  Would you agree?  Gary C. V.


Hi Gary!


No, as said the origin of the equivalence principle is found in the prior existence of gravitational mass not as is embodied in m=E/c2, but in m=hf/c2=kT/c2 in quantum form.

The transformtion into Newtonian inertia then CRYSTALLIZED the current mass content in the universe by coupling your other misgiving of the standard models - Coulombic charge - to the inertia precursor in the so termed Higgs Bosonic Restmass Induction (say the Dirac Sea of the Vacuum etc.).

Here then you find what this 'electric charge' represents on the elementary level.

The nature of Coulombic charge represents the transformation-quantum mechanics of the 'higher dimensional'

nature of the electrocharge precursor - the magnetocharge, also known as the colour charges of the gluons and the quarks.

In term of unification physics, the transformation of the Planck parameters was in five stages (the so called superstring classes), the second being the so called Dirac monopole at the GUT-energy level of 2.7x1016 GeV or a 'particle--mass of 4.8x10-11 kg.


The preinertial albeit gravitational universe so had an intrinsic curvature of 1/Hubble-Radius~6x10-27 1/m.


The presence of mass, as in general relativity forms a subset for this intrinsic curvature, as the total mass content of the universe to define such a curvature must be a Mother-BlackHole mass in the 'Strominger' sense of a boundary/initial condition.


So you find a kaleidoscope of local curvatures due to the local inertia content, the total being however related to Mach's principle as the total inertia of the cosmos et al.

But it are not the Machian stars, but the higher dimensional Black Hole encompassment (in 11 dimensions), which so crystallize the meaning of the Machian universe.

As the metric spacetimes are local macroquantum systems in lower dimensional spacetimes; but as they find their true nature in the fractalisation of a holographic- and microquantised universe; the Einsteinian metrics, based on relativistically measured coordinate systems; all reduce to the most basic Schwarzschild metric and the Einstein-Rosen-bridge, that is the wormhole tunnels connecting the universal fractals in omnipresence.


So the reason as to why a proton, an atom or a molecule or you manifests mass-inertially and not mass-gravitationally relies on the nature of the boundary conditions for the Holofractal Black Hole physics.

The 5 stringclasses and the large scale size of the universe relate to ech other via the Cosmic ray spectra and the modular duality coupling between high vibrational energy - small wavelength superbranes and low vibrational energy - large wavelength antisuperbranes.


The minimum holofractal inertial mass for the generation of a wormhole unit is about 6,500 kg for a Schwarzschild Curvature radius of about 10-22 meters.

The maximum holofractal inertial radius is the Hubble-radius at about 16.9 billion lightyears.

So a supercluster of galaxies forms an important Schwarzschild Curvature boundary condition, calculated at so 236 million lightyears; whilst a typical (dark matter) haloed supergalaxy like Andromeda or the Milky Way is bounded in a Schwarzschild radius of about 6x1022 meters or about 6 million lightyears.


Using this boundary (or supremal) value to calculate a respective Black Hole mass, gives you 2.5x1049 kg~1.25x1019 solar masses; compared to an estimated baryonic+dark matter content for such a galaxy at so 1012 solar masses is about 2x1042 kg and for a diversion factor in the order of 1.25x107.


The holofractal factors for the Planck-scale transform are however approximated by the scalerelative sizes between microquanta and macroquanta, especially the relatively stable structures of atomic configurations. The Rydberg Energy defines the basic quantum form for atomic Hydrogen in E=hf=Ry.hc with Ry~107 1/m to define the 'quantum jump' between nucleus and electron in terms of the electromagnetic interaction {ElectronRadius=Alpha.ComptonRadius=Alpha2.HydrogenRadius=Alpha3/4π.Ry}.


The typical scale ratio between the 'supremal' Hubble-Black Hole and a MilkyWay-Black Hole~2x1026/2x1019=107 and this relates the Planck-Radius to a (3x1020 ev was measured on 15 October 1991 over Dugway Proving Grounds, Utah) Cosmic ray energy of 1021 eV in 2x10-35/2x10-28.

These are highly approximate values, which indicate the holofractal nature of the cosmos however.
I'm sure that more sophisticated models, taking into account the detailed distribution of the dark matter (which are chirally polarised restmass photons as Higgs photons say) and the dark energy (which is the supremal black hole physics).


So perhaps you can see now, that those boundary curvatures ENCOMPASS cosmological objects gravitationally rather independent on their LOCALISED inertial mass content, but as holofractalisations of the Machian Cosmology.


The galactic core concentrations then become physicalised Black Hole systems and it are these the astrophycicist analyse and study as the SEEDS upon which the (galactic) object evolved upon.


So you, the phycisist Gary Vezzoli represent a Black Hole supremal seed in terms of inertia; however you manifest physically not in your metaphysical 'wormholed' nature, but in a an atomic configuration which 'encompasses' your metaphysical true identity.

John Shadow


Tony -- the equivalence principle is not correct.  We have proven without doubt that gravitational mass and inertial mass are not equivalent, from the standpoint of acceleration and gravity.  The effects of temperature, phase, shape -- entropy in general -- on measurements of mass (which is really showing mass, through a measurement of weight) are different for free-fall, as compared to accelerating a mass in the x-y plane from a zero velocity, or from uniform velocity.  No set of equations or calculations will offset that experimental fact.  Again, as I have said previously, the only meaningful equations on these subjects are time-dependent differential equations, and integral equations.  Everything else is in the realm of a formula, and thus not really fundamental physics.  Space-time as a fabric of the universe is interpreted as curved or warped, because Einstein and Minkowski designed them so, and Einstein upon emigrating to America was highly lauded in popular press and scientific journals.  However, the work is physically un-sound, and therefore the mathematics, though so beautifully elegant, is mostly worth only paradigm value in terms of field theory -- which is simply a model, but cannot possibly, in my opinion, explain what we know about particle physics.  Gary C. V.

Hi Gary!


You have done so perhaps in your personally related agenda; in the laboratory measuring acceleration linked to inertia  carriers such as you describe.

Your anti-Einstein stance wrt to the equivalence principle is based on physical measurement and not the mathematical formalisms of general relativity as such.

You cannot reduce the workings of the universe to inertia calculations, as this inertia is NOT constant in terms of either the gravitational weight or the resistance to acceleration.

The inertia is the manifesto of concentrated 'photonic mass equivalent' and so not a fundamental parameter for an universally valid cosmogenesis.

Even the Gravitational Constant remains constant only in terms of the string parameters, but decreases in laboratory measurements by about 3 parts in 100 billion per year.

This means that the measured nucleon masses have increased by about 60% from a basevalue of about 10^-27 kg since the birth of the universe.


You mention time-dependent differential equations; knowing that the time independent Schroedinger equation is the one intrinsically compatible with the relativities.

So your anti-Einstein position is well justified in the context of the time-dependancy of quantum mechanics, where the first order derivative wrt time becomes incompatible with the second order of the position coordinates.

I so feel, that your position on the statistical supremacy fails a deeper analysis of what the application of the equivalence principle entails in the form I have introduced it.


You favour the reduction of fundamental physics to that of a statistical particle-inertia distribution and so cannot fathom the occurrence of a singular Quantum Big Bang; as the latter invalidates such a stochastic distribution from first principles.

You so require a history of universes, leading to the static nonexpanding universe of Hoyle.

But remember, Fred Hoyle favoured mass creation in his model and I agree with that in principle and as a modified form for his Steady State Cosmology, incorporating expansion (but not acceleration in toto - the present deceleration-acceleration cosmology is restricted to particular redshift intervals, say from z=0.15 to z=1.8 inclusive the supernova type 1a distributions and can be remodeled as a selfintersection of the electromagnetic parameters).

The present status quo cosmology is largely thermodynamically correct (with exception of antimatter scenarios and the virtual gauges) and your 'push gravity' scenarios are not required to model particular accomodate syzygy- and other astronomical phenomena.


But to each adventurer its own. The future new physics shall clarify the matter as not mattering so much.


John Shadow




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