You might think of it this way April.

Is an electron immortal?

Of course it is and so is the proton as the two most elementary bulding blocks of atoms (with neutrons which only decay if 'away' from the nucleus of such an atom).

Your body, as the materialists will tell you, is made up from those 'atomic building blocks'.

But are those atoms you? Skeptics and atheist often proclaim this being so.

So in quantum terms, the constituents of your body are already immortal and can, theoretically BE anyplace in the physical universe.

As Carl Sagan has said, you are made from stardust (of supernovae as dispersing stars).

Quantum Immortality as then proposed by Tegmark, Lewis and others is imo 'hocus pocus' (using Herb's favourable sense of expressionisms).

It introduces many aspects of quantum mechanical interpretation which (in Mac's words) are extremely nonparsimonous; the Many-Worlds-Hocus Pocus being the main ingredient.

The 'scientific' debates on Quantum Immortality serve really only one ontological purpose; namely to 'kill the concept of God' and the concept of 'spirituality'.

They are so the (imo) hogwashed attempts to portray 'reductionistic science' as the 'new religion' of rational reasonings.

Ok, I won't rave on; but define Quantum Immortality in a comprehensive manner, which synthesises the 'spiritul immortality' with the 'quantum immortality of the atomic constituents.

Quantum Immortality REQUIRES a TRANSFORMATION of the atomic structure, not the atomic structure in its material essence (protons, neutrons and electrons), BUT the atomic structure in its macroquantised state, namely your entire bodyform.

So you 'keep' your atomic structures, BUT the TRUE YOU (who uses the atomic structure as a house or dress or temple) becomes enabled to SYNERGIZE the macroquantum (you as a hologram) with the microquantums (the atoms and subatoms also as holograms, but of the entire universe).

As ex-baptist this might now make some sense to you: 1Corinthians.15:

I'll intersperse the Quantum Physics contained in the words of Paul with the scriptural CODE:

 ³⁵But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?The body of the dead will NOT resurrect in flesh and bone (spiritual archetype in Ecclesiastes in the' valley of the bones') - but the bones (atoms) CAN become a form opf skeletal basis for the new body.
 

 ³⁶Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
You MUST be REBORN as April in a NEW body should you like to keep the present one in a 'quickening' -this is the quantum micro-macro synergy in the holographic universe.
  

 ³⁷And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

The present April, getting older (because of somatic cellular telomere depletion in cellular mitosis and DNA blockages between dimensional genomatic induction) and expecting to physically 'die' in say 50 years; IS presently LIKE A SEED for the 'potential future body.
 

 ³⁸But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

April, AS the ambassadora for the Body of God's Wife, namely the PHYSICAL UNIVERSE as the template for April's miniaturization harbours a 'SOUL' as part of God's Image in 'his' wife the universe. So April's Soul is the BELOVED of GOD and he has pleased himself in giving HER the body she has, SUBJECT to her self-consciousness as to what SHE is, namely the wife of God in miniaturization of the hologram.

 ³⁹All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

This 'fleshiness' DEFINES the graduation of the 'souls' in the physical manifestation of consciousness -determined by natural selective evolution Darwinian style, but with Epigenetic (read Lamarckian) overtures of environmental adaptations.
 

 ⁴⁰There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
The 'glories' here are a reference to to manifestation of the Universal Consciousness of God, say as defined in previous posts. A star has an enormous 'space consciousness' due to the volume of space it occupies, a planet has less so and a moon lesser, but more than a country landmass etc.

Then of course, the solar consciousness becomes a BASE-Consciousness INTERACTING with the cosmic environment, say the solar wind. This is HOW LIFE forms in solar systems.

The communication between star and planets becomes energy exchange and the 'solar base consciousness' 'enriches' and supports the planetary evolutionary cycles on all levels.

Many levels are mineral and crystalline and gaseous; some are able to manifest aquatic environments as the prerequisite for biovital lifeforms and so on.
 

 ⁴¹There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

As in the above. Paul was a suave and clever gnostic, who understood the Gospels of  John and Thomas in their archetypical and NOT historical agendas.
 

 ⁴²So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
This is the Quantum Immortality in the quantum relativistic holographic sense.

The 'decaying bodyforms' of the blocked superDNA expression and the telomerase depletion are the corruption; whilst the baseperfect DNA encoding of the synergized bodies is the incorruption.
 

 ⁴³It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
Every baby that is born presently is 'born to die'. The soul assumes the bodyform KNOWING from where it came, that this cycle of the damned graves CAN be circumvented. The weakness and dependencies of babies are meant to 'mirror' the weakness of the human condition. One must 'overcome' the world of the 'bodies destined for the tomb or the fire' to 'inherit' the resurrection.
 

 ⁴⁴It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
The natural body is the biological synthesis of parental sexual chromosomes, then triggering the biochemical DNA-encodings.

The spiritual body is the 'shadow body' of the soul growing, developing and evolving WITH the biochemical body and the one which serves as the memory repository and the library for the human experience in 'the souls life' in the embodiment.
 

 ⁴⁵And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Very short and succinctly; Jesus of Nazareth was the Quantum Physicist who solved the mysteries of the archetypes. Without himher NOONE will be able to attain those 'New Bodies'.

One word; skeptics beware - you are literally playing with your incarnational histories.
 

 ⁴⁶Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
The archetype was a normal human bodyform, housing the supreme wisdom of the gnosis and the insights, able to decipher Isaiah. Then he died in the body and had nowhere to go, because he had solved the 'Puzzle of God'; so he (as the soul of God) simply transformed his body in resonance with the Universe's collective superconsciousness (The physics is available in technical terms for this).
 

  ⁴⁷The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.Jesus of Nazareth is in heaven=wavefunction of the entire universe now; but he is also within you, April as the Lover of your soul as she. But without listening to himher, many cannot believe that this is a fact of the Quantum Holofractal Cosmology.

 ⁴⁸As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

Earthy here is fundamental as the Particular (Individual) Part and also archetyped as the 'Hellish'; the heavenly is the Wavicular (Collective or Holistic) Part as expressed in the solution of the Schroedinger's Cat Paradox.
 

 ⁴⁹And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
The Soul within everyone IS an intimate part of God. As Man your soul is the Beloved of the 'Goddess' as the Quantum-SinkSource and as Woman your soul is the Beloved of 'God' as the Quantum-SourceSink. The quantum source is the vibratory microscaled part of the wave-particle duality of the Universe in toto and the quantum sink is the winded macroscaled part of the latter.

The micro indicates characteristic wormholes and the macro indicates the scale of galactic superclusters as gravitational limit in the cosmological principle and homogeneity and isotropy.
 

 ⁵⁰Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
You are born to die, UNTIL you GET IT - the quantum holographic Eucharist.

 ⁵¹Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
The mystery is the metamorphosis of the old April into the new April by the 'power of God', which is the soul of April. 

 ⁵²In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Well, that is the parousia, which is coming nearer as the message sent from the galactic center about 25,624 civil years ago and which will hit the center of the earth in about 3 years and then REFLECT and travel back at lightspeed to where it came from.
 

 ⁵³For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

It was done on April 1st, 31 AD to implement the universal archetype (for all cosmic civilisations not just the one on earth, but the latter is itself destined to become an archetype as a collective civilization -hard to believe at the moment I know) and it will happen again.
 

 ⁵⁴So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 ⁵⁵O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

I can't wait and hope to still be in my suffering abode, when the timeline ends.

John Shadow in the Cave of Plato

--- In Panentheism@yahoogroups.com, "april0203ebay" <april0203@...> wrote:
JS, do you accept "Quantum Immortality?"
April
--- In Panentheism@yahoogroups.com, "khaibit1975" shadower@ wrote:
The Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics concentrates on a 'classical treatment' of the observer and the observed; leading to a 'collapse of the wavefunction' upon the act of the observation.
This has little to do with the 'quantum phenomenon of entanglement' as is indicated in the Weinberg critique of Copenhagen below.
Summararily, Schroedinger was right in the first instance; BUT this does NOT require a Copenhagen observer.
Schroedinger's Cat is BOTH ALIVE and DEAD as the superposition of quantum selfstates and INDEPENDENT on any classical observer (looking at the cat).

The superposition is the entanglement of the collapsed and the escaped quantum eigenstates.
The cat is a living Particle-Entity with 'consciousness/soul/god' INSIDE as a collapsed wave.
And the cat is a dead Wave-Entity with a 'consciousness/soul/god' OUTSIDE as an escaped wave.
These two eigenstates define QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT of the SIMULTANEOUS
CAT, being BOTH a living body and a dead nonbody at the same time.
Why does the human mind find that this is so hard to understand?
JS

Many physicists and philosophers have objected to the Copenhagen interpretation, both on the grounds that it is non-deterministic and that it includes an undefined measurement process that converts probability functions into non-probabilistic measurements. Einstein's comments "I, at any rate, am convinced that He (God) does not throw dice and "Do you really think the moon isn't there if you aren't looking at it?" exemplify this. Bohr, in response, said "Einstein, don't tell God what to do".
Steven Weinberg  in "Einstein's Mistakes", Physics Today, November 2005, page 31, said:
All this familiar story is true, but it leaves out an irony. Bohr's version of quantum mechanics was deeply flawed, but not for the reason Einstein thought. The Copenhagen interpretation describes what happens when an observer makes a measurement, but the observer and the act of
measurement are themselves treated classically. This is surely wrong:
Physicists and their apparatus must be governed by the same quantum mechanical rules that govern everything else in the universe. But these rules are expressed in terms of a wave function (or, more precisely, a state vector) that evolves in a perfectly deterministic way. So where do
the probabilistic rules of the Copenhagen interpretation come from?
Considerable progress has been made in recent years toward the resolution of the problem, which I cannot go into here. It is enough to say that neither Bohr nor Einstein had focused on the real problem with quantum mechanics. The Copenhagen rules clearly work, so they have to be
accepted. But this leaves the task of explaining them by applying the deterministic equation for the evolution of the wave function, the Schrödinger equation, to observers and their apparatus.
The problem of thinking in terms of classical measurements of a quantum system becomes particularly acute in the field of quantum cosmology, where the quantum system is the universe.

Re: Steven Weinberg and 'Einstein's Mistakes'/Quantum Immortality.

Heaven and Hell are NOT locations, physical or 'spiritual'. They are
archetypical entities, i.e WORDS or labels, which are most definitely
related to the 'States of Mind' and so 'consciousness' and selfawareness as other such 'labels'.

The heaven and hell of Jesus are very real mental states'.
The sheeps and goats of the 'last judgements' are objects and their images.
The object is YOU as an individual and your image is you as a 'false identity'.

"Two will be in a field, one will be taken and one will remain" means that EVERYONES 'fake image' will literally 'go to hell' i.e. the 'lake of fire (your yin) and brimstone (your yang)'.

The 'lake' encompassing this is your 'new body' after you have 'eaten the lion'.
It is sad to hear that the skeptics and atheists have 'talked you out' of the scriptures.

The bible, if read correctly, is a 'handbook and manual' for the 'new physics' for the 21stcentury.

The trouble is simply that the expert, the theologians and historians (and as Mac has poignantly said) have little nous of how to 'interpret' the scriptures NOT as historical evidence, but as a basis in allegory and metaphor and symbolism leading the way into a total ABOLISHMENT of
dogmatic religion with their 'Fake-Gods' , Fake-Devils, Fake-Christs {Yes, the Jesus of dogmatic christianity is the false prophet in John's Revelation and the child-killing and woman-raping Jehovah of the OT is a 'Fake-God'}.

Then the trouble at the present time are not the scriptures, but the people who think they know what the scriptures mean and represent: from the Pope to your Latter Day Saint and Jonestown.

JS


"april0203 wrote:
Thank you. I'm fixing myself some lunch, and I'll sit down here and reread this piece. I could grasp the first half well enough upon first read. I prefer to stick with science these days, as I view Scripture as a product of its time. Though you do make some compelling connections between what St. Paul wrote about the spiritual body and the quantum body.
Do you accept the Bible's teaching of hell?
April

April wrote:
Yes, the focus on gender is anthropomorphic, but consider the slant on my question. What I was basically wanting to know was how can God have gender without a body? I so closely connect gender and personality and consciousness. I guess I see them all intertwined. 

 That last sentence of yours hits the nail the head with me. It is what I have been trying to convey for ages. How could something without consciousness give rise to consciousness? Of course, there is emergence that cuts both ways. 
 
One raw food guru once pointed out that all of nature is one giant sex act. Makes sense.

JS: Your guru here is absolutely correct.
The biochemical and evolutionary development began at the Big Bang, when the 'universe' was at its minimum consciousness level.

The first consciousness crystallized in the natural beta minus decay of natural radioactivity, when the primordial neutrons 'decayed' into yin-protons and yang-electrons.

The space between the nuclear core of the hydrogenic proton and the hydrogenic electron became the medium for individuated consciousness to manifest. This is SPACIAL CONSCIOUSNESS as a form of base-consciousness. 

About 17 billion years later, little tadpole like creatures, inhabiting the primordial ponds on a terraforming planet first became AWARE of lightsources shining onto the pond as sunlight and as starlight.

The hydrogenic space-consciousness had evolved from an earlier material Big Bang unconsciousness into the selfawareness-consciousness of the 'tadpole'.

About 500 million years ago, the evolution of the tadpole had resuled in the archosaurs, then dinosaurs and reptilian paramammals (pecylosaurs), then mammals and the primate trees began so 6 million years ago with the australopithecines and home erectus.

The hydrogenic space consciousness is within the 'tadpole' is within the stegosaurus is within the smilodon is within Austalopithecus Afarensis is within Cleopatra is withn April is within God the Immanent.

But the hydrogenic spacial consciousness is within God the Transcendent.

April: Btw, lest I forget, I'd love to get a discussion of the Gaia Theory going on this list. But I'll have to wait for my exams to be over first...here in a few days. If I forget, I hope someone will remind me.

JS: Gaia is an archetypical label for the collective planetary consciousness as indicated above. You may in all seriousness consider the works of James Lovelock - he does indeed lock in the love!

Gaia is April the Greater and Bill the more Encompassing  and John the Elevated.

The BODY and MORPHOGENETIC GESTALT of April is the archetype of Eve.

Just as Eve as archetype 'came out of Adam', so did the UNIVERSE as the Body of God, 'come out' of the NOBOBY God in transcendence.

Therefore Adam AS ARCHETYPE is the bodyimage of God in immanence mirroring the transcendence.

Bill is a REAL Adam; REALISING the archetype or template of Adam.

Bill getting to know himself as Adam True makes God very happy; because then Bill can begin to KNOW God as BEING the image of God.

Gaia is the Universe in miniature. This will become physicalized in 2012/2013 in no 'uncertain' terms.

The Mother Earth=Eve archetypy=Gaia=Gaea=Nut=Cosmos=April in hologramic selfsimilarity and DESTINY (within the present or some other BODY as the temple and WIFE of the transcendent God becoming immananent).

JS