I hope that's
not the case, though. J.S.? Help?
Sure April.
First the holocaust. Would it not have been for the filmindustry and the technological
advancement the collective human consciousness found itself at this nexus point of the human (and cosmic I might add) evolution
as a 'Gaian civilization'; THEN the abhorrence of 'HOW NOT TO BE A CIVILIZATION' would not have been archived
in film and literature as it has been.
Even without the gases and
the bombings and then Hiroshima and Nagasaki; (all archived as witness accounts); do you think the inhumanity of man to man
was any more 'vile' than perpetrated by the Nazis, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, Pol Pot , Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Alexander
the Great Hannibal, the Caesars, the Spanish Inquisitors, the Witch Hunters, etc.etc.etc. in the past?
In the past, written testimonies and historical accounts are all that is left of the
'EVIL=LIVE'.
The problem of EVIL is archetypically a mirror
for HOW NOT TO LIVE.
It serves as a testimony for the archives of
the cosmos.
NO other civilisation in this universe, which spans almost
40 billion light years across; will EVER EVER EVER have to EXPERIENCE the evolution of any cosmic civilization in such selfdenial
and selfnegation of itself.
The 'false humility' of
many, which belittles the human importance is the true 'blasphemy' to God.
It is this selfnegation, which caused the tyrants and the thoughtsystems of 'class distinctions', of apartheid
and of 'we are better than you', or 'we know better than you' and 'only through us can you get to be or
know as we do; to have arisen.
You see it is written: - For this is what the LORD says: "You were sold for nothing, and without
money you will be redeemed."
Isaiah 52:2-4 (in Context) Isaiah 52 (Whole Chapter) - [ Invitation to the Thirsty ] "Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without
money and without cost.
This
might show to anyone, just how the 'truth be known' and One claimed of being 'The Truth' (Ripleys).
So the holocaust was not just a human atrocity committed by man on its fellow man.
The holocaust was a COSMIC EVENT, witnessed by the universe and filmed by the universe
to SHOW to the children sitting in a classroom in some 'faraway galaxy' what can happen to the collective groupconsciousness,
of such a cosmic civilization, if in IGNORANCE about itself, its purpose for BEING and so on.
The collective humanity; since the Big Bang; became IMPLEMENTED by the collective starhuman intelligence
(ah, what might that be? The Shadow knows) to 'GO INTO THE WILDERNESS' of collective forgetfulness to 'Pull OFF
the greatest Coup' imaginable.
Namely, this collective
human race; finding itself in exile on some outpost of some galaxy; would quarantine itself and in its pure genius, develop
and create a human civilisation built on killing each other and warfare and stupendously deceptive financial- and political-military-
and socio-economic- and religious systems.
This isolated civilization
would then EXTROVERT its inner 'forgetfulness' in becoming more and more technologically literate and INVENTIVE.
It would eventually create a physical communication system from messenger to postman
to telegraph to telephone to satellite to internet.
Then when the
global communication system would exist, then and only then would SOME of the exiled humans (exiled from the rest of
the cosmic sentiences) REMEMBER themselves and begin the Grand Homecoming (as Shadows of themselves) and the integration
of the 'exiled heroes and heroines' into the cosmic intellligent communication networks.
It would take about 26,000 lightyears for this exile to end and when the golfballed earth
(as a Black Hole Information library) would have collected enough DATA to terra-transform Gaia the MotherPlanet (for the entire
universe; naysayers eat your shadows) to Gaia the Homeplanet for the ENTIRE UNIVERSE, inclusive OF ALL ET's that seem
to be as yet labelled as 'Alien'.
The star-transformed Gaia
shall SHINE and broadcast its 'sad, violent and troublesome' history as a CONTEXT of the epitome of COSMIC SUFFERING
in its 'new' nature as a 'Dark Star'.
Yes,
indeed Earth itself is the 'Nibiru' of the 'Visiting Planet of the Ancestors' and the 'Nemesis' of
the 'Second Sun'.
The Human Race, COLLECTIVELY is the MESSIAH for the UNIVERSE.
JS
--- In Panentheism@yahoogroups.com,
"april0203ebay" <april0203@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Panentheism@yahoogroups.com,
"John C. Attamack" atomicj@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi April,
> >
> > Here are
my comments on your comments....
> >
> > "How can ascribing consciousness to God limit Him/Her/?"
> >
> > Because when we think of consciousness, we think of *our* kind of
> > consciousness,
and our consciousness is extremely limited.
>
>
> OK, but consciousness is the most complex thing
there is. Maybe God has higher consciousness.
>
>
>
> >
> > "Well,
I'm not so sure that the Christian notion that God is allowing evil
> > to take place for a greater reason
couldn't hold true, even though we dont'
> > like it, which in and of itself wouldn't be enough reason
to reject it. (I'm
> > not saying you're doing this, however.)"
> >
> > True
enough, but then my #4 is still false. God wouldn't be all-good.
>
>
> Define all good. Maybe
he's a utilitarian.
>
>
>
> >
> > "Well, He/She would be justified
[in allowing evil] if there was a greater
> > reason for it. A utilitarian position would state that the greater
good
> > would indeed justify it."
> >
> > Possibly true, as we even do it. We jab
our kids with needles to protect
> > them from diseases that could kill them, for instance. However, most of
> > what I'm thinking of as "evil" is far beyond such trivialities.
>
>
>
Right. And the good promised in the long run is far beyond our everyday notion of good too.
>
>
>
>
>
> Personally,
> > my own consciousness "is designed" so that it is extremely
offensive, and
> > possibly even a factor in determining that someone needs serious mental
> > help,
merely to *think* that there could be some greater utilitarian purpose
> > to 9/11 and the Holocaust -- even if
there could be. (Therefore, I have
> > just offended myself, if not everyone else on the list at least in
>
> principle, except possibly for whoever one certain person is calling
> > him/herself these days. I apologize.)
>
>
> You have not offended me. Thought experiments sometimes take us to uncomfortable conclusions.
As horrible as the holocaust was, and may we never forget or trivialize it, it was still a finite event that took a finite
amount of time. If there is a greater, eternal good, then it would outweigh any finite suffering.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My internal mechanisms for survival
> > and empathy cannot allow
for things like this, and there are certain levels
> > of evil that I do not believe can be justified for any utilitarian
purpose.
>
>
> Well, I tried to above, but it still makes me wince.
>
>
>
>
> > "I'm not sure number 4 is defined correctly. Our knowledge is limited, so
> > how
can what we want equal what God wants?"
> >
> > I don't know that it is, either, but that
is part of what I'm talking about.
> > The "problem" is, how can a God who is all-knowing, all-powerful,
and
> > all-good, allow evil? But it is we limited humans who are doing the
> > defining. We're
assuming things like that God doesn't want us to die,
> > because we don't want to die, or that God doesn't
want us to suffer, because
> > we don't want to suffer. But maybe God *does* want these things. Maybe our
> > deaths and our sufferings are mere trivialities in an equation that spans
> > multiple universes.
>
> I suppose you're right. We may serve some utilitarian purpose to the whole ball of wax, and *our* survival
might not be the goal.
>
> I hope that's not the case, though. J.S.? Help?
>
>
>
But if that is the case, then we're back to God not
> > being "all-good", because we're defining
good in terms of what is good for
> > *us*.
>
>
> I can't argue against this at this
time. Can't find fault with it, though I don't like it. :)
>
>
> >
> > Personally,
I think that, in addressing almost every philosophical,
> > religious, and metaphysical point, we tend to overrate
our own consciousness
> > and importance. I think that we do this because, in normal everyday life,
> >
we have to, to survive.
>
>
> I think it also in part due to simple observation. As stated above,
we haven't seen anything more complex.
>
>
>
> If my own existence weren't the
most important
> > thing in the world (to me), then I might just decide to let myself get eaten
> >
by that mountain lion.
>
>
>
> Yes, indeed the love of our lives is what contributes to
our survival.
>
>
>
> But when we step outside of our physical existence
> >
and start questioning what is beyond the beyond, it may well be that
> > whatever is beyond the beyond really doesn't
care whether I'm here or not.
> > The fact that I have a mind that can comprehend even a tenth of a trillionth
> > of a trillionth of a percent of existence, and that my mind might want to
> > aim for two tenths, could
well just be an accident of evolution.
>
>
> Yes, it could be. But this is the hardest thing for
me to accept. I can't articulate why I feel in my soul that this isn't true. I shall keep trying.
>
>
>
> Some
> > subset of that first tenth is all I need to keep this body running and pass
>
> on my genes. The second tenth is icing on the cake.
> >
> > -- John Attamack
>
>
> Excellent post. Though I "should like to find a genuine loophole," said Hoyle?
>
> -April
>
